Episode 13: How to Improve your Decision Making with Jessica Frew

Do you struggle to make decisions? Do you doubt yourself and end up procrastinating? Are you stuck because you can’t decide what the right course of action is?

If analysis paralysis is your kryptonite, this episode is for you.

My guest, Jessica Frew, a BOLD action taker, unpacks why women find it so hard to make decisions that’ll ultimately improve their lives and how to get started with small steps to build your decision making muscles so you can change your life for the better.

Episode highlights:

• Jessica’s personal journey of co-parenting a child with her gay ex-husband
• How external influences such as religious communities influence your decision making
• Being intentional about the decision making process
• Recovering from self-betrayal
• Learning to trust your gut when you’ve been taught not to
• Managing your emotions when you’re faced with a decision
• Learning to sit with and process difficult emotions
• Using the way you feel to inform you, but not to direct the action you take
• Starting small with decision making so you can build confidence
• THE most powerful question you can ask yourself
• How to make decisions that enable you to choose your life direction
• Empowering yourself to make good decisions by exploring all the available options
• Stop shoulding all over yourself
• Jessica’s Triple B Decision Making Formula
• Taking the right action so that life happens for you, not to you

Confidence comes from taking baby steps consistently. Learning to trust yourself to make small decisions on a regular basis, means that when the time comes to make big decisions, it’ll be far easier.

Join Jessica’s FREE workshop here.

Visit jessica’s website here: www.heyjessicafrew.com

Connect with Jessica on Instagram here @heyjessicafrew 

If you've got big goals, but you're totally stuck about where to start, I invite you to book a complimentary strategy call with me here.

We'll uncover what's holding you back from the goals you want to achieve and you'll leave the call with actionable steps to get you moving in the right direction.

For the tea on me, how I work, who I coach and the packages I offer, please visit my website - www.emmaobriencoach.com

You can also connect with me on Instagram @emmaobriencoach where I share an abundance of tools, strategies and brilliant content, you might also see the occasional dog.

Check out two of my FREE online workshops:

My 7 Step Formula for Getting Unstuck

4 Ways to Stop Procrastination in its Tracks

Transcript

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Emma O'Brien: Hi folks welcome to episode 13 of the second season of the lemons and pineapples. Podcast today, my guest is jessica, Frew. And we're talking about ways to improve your decision making. So if you know, you need to make a decision, but you're putting it off or you're getting stuck in analysis, paralysis. This episode is for you

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Emma O'Brien: first, st a bit about my guest. Jessica is a wife, ex-wife, mum stepmum, and bold action taker. She believes that we find true peace connection, and confidence by making the next right decision.

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Emma O'Brien: Jessica helps you make clear, confident, and concise decisions to lead to a bold life that feels in alignment with who you were created to be through her triple B decision making process which we're going to talk a bit more about welcome to the podcast Jessica.

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Jessica Frew: Hey? Thanks for having me.

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Emma O'Brien: I'm very excited for our conversation today. I think this is gonna be really really insightful and interesting. So I am a quick decision maker, and my attitude is, if I get it wrong I will pivot, or I'll course correct, or I will just manage. However.

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Emma O'Brien: I'm guessing that the women you work with do not share the same love of snap decision making. So tell me a little bit about you, cause I know you've got a very interesting story, and how you've come to be working in what I think is a super specialist niche of coaching women about how to make decisions.

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Jessica Frew: Yeah. Yeah. So whenever people ask me to tell them about me, I'm like, alright, it starts when I met my ex-husband, and we met in college, and it was like we were together we met, and then we're together. Every day. After that we met in February. We were married by December, super quick and 6 months into our marriage. I was like scrolling on our computer. And this was back

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Jessica Frew: when, like pop-ups happened on your computer. And all of this pornography started popping up on my computer. And I wasn't concerned about the pornography. But there were no women in sight in it, and that.

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Emma O'Brien: Aye.

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Jessica Frew: Okay, this is like, okay, what's happening here? And

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Jessica Frew: I confronted him that night. And I'm like, Hey, this happened, are you gay? And he's like, no, I'm not gay. I just always felt it was better to just look at men, not disrespect women, and this is coming from. We were raised in a very conservative Christian religion, both of us. And so he had created this story, and kept himself very much in denial about the fact. He was gay.

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Jessica Frew: And so in that moment, I'm like, Okay, sure, like, okay. And I was like, sure some straight men might look at gay pornography or just men, but I knew in my gut that my husband was probably gay, and so we continued forward because it just we were happy together, like we had so much fun. Everything was good. People always are like, what about your sex life? It was fulfilling, like all of those things, were in place.

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Jessica Frew: and we continued forward a few years later. He wasn't counseling, and the counselor was like, you know, all of these things are an issue, but it's not going to get better until you accept the fact that you are gay.

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Jessica Frew: And at that point he came out to me, and we continued for it in our marriage, because again, we were told, this is the only right way. This is the path you're supposed to be on. And also we were happy, like we really enjoyed each other, and him being able to open up to me actually brought us closer together. Because now I like I was the only one that knew really who he was and what he was going through, and

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Jessica Frew: and vice versa, I mean, at that point nobody knew what I was dealing with either, and it just really brought us close together.

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Jessica Frew: We ended up having a daughter 5 years into our marriage, but then, 2 years after that, he did have an affair, and it was like everything crumbled. We tried to make it work after that, but he was no longer attracted to me. He was like, I thought that I would be disgusted and repulsed by this, and it just felt so right. He's like other than the fact. I have totally ruined our relationship, and I know I've hurt you. It's like outside of that. This felt so natural and right

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Jessica Frew: so we got divorced, and we continued forward, but in that we made a decision like a big decision in that moment of like, how do we want this to look like you plan out how your life's gonna look like married. You kind of have this idea of how your life's gonna go. And then you get divorced. And I think this is where a lot of

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Jessica Frew: the issues come from a divorce. It's like, well, now, what the hell does this look like? What do I do from here? How do I figure this out. And so we made a decision like we sat down and kind of mapped out what we hoped

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Jessica Frew: our lives would look like post divorce, and really tried to do that in times when our emotions weren't high, because obviously there were still big emotions happening. During this time I'd experienced betrayal. Steve was dealing with huge self betrayal all of these things, and

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Jessica Frew: and we decided that we wanted to try to have the best relationship we could for our daughter and for each other. It helps everybody when you can do this. But we set out an outline of like, how can this look and really decide? Okay, if we could remain friends, if we can be each other's cheerleaders, if we can make it so that when our daughter Penny has anything in her life that's important to her.

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Jessica Frew: She can invite both her parents and not have to worry about us being in the same room. That's our ultimate goal.

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Jessica Frew: And basically everything we try to decide within our relationship has kind of like circled around that intention, hard conversations done out of love so that we can create that fast. Forward we are, oh, man! 12 years 12 and a half years post divorce. I am remarried. I've been remarried for 11 years now, which has been a whole nother, crazy experience. I'm always like, I see my second marriages end

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Jessica Frew: so quickly for so many reasons. But we are here 11 years in, and it's amazing. And Steve and I are still very good friends, like, he is still very much a part of our lives. We hosted a podcast. Together for 5 years. We recently just pivoted on that, and he has a partner now who's been around for several years, who is a part of our family as well.

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Jessica Frew: And it's been interesting to me to see

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Jessica Frew: how the decision-making process plays into this. And like you're saying, you're able to make those snap decisions. I'm a pretty quick decision maker as well, and there's some things I take more time on, but relatively fast for anybody I know, and I think that's a gift that some of us are given in being able to really trust our gut and understand that, and also something that's instilled in us as kids where

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Jessica Frew: we were given the opportunity to actually trust ourselves instead of just being told. Oh, your feelings don't. That doesn't hurt that bad. It's not that big of a deal you shouldn't want that you shouldn't do that.

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Jessica Frew: There's something that's been

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Jessica Frew: ingrained in us that it's okay to trust who we are. It's okay to trust our gut in those decision-making processes, and that's

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Jessica Frew: been a huge made a huge difference in my life. And so I've come around to. I I helped women for a while, who were specifically in my same situation, who had had a partner come out. And I've brought in because I've seen there's so many women in self betrayal that we've been trained, that that's the way to do life, and it really keeps us from being able to make decisions and act on them that are right for us. And so I've

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Jessica Frew: been able to create a life based on that of like, listen, I get to trust myself. And now it's something that can be taught. We can regain this ability to make decisions and to feel confident in those decisions. And just as you were saying in the beginning you make the decision, knowing that no matter the outcome on the other side, I can shift. I can pivot like this, doesn't this isn't an end. All be. All this is just a decision

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Jessica Frew: that's then going to give me clarity for the next one. So there's like the overview of who I am and what I do.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah, amazing. I mean, there's so much in there. And I, what I hear in there is that you've

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Emma O'Brien: and you and your ex-husband made a very conscious decision to

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Emma O'Brien: choose what was happening in your lives. And I think that is key, isn't it, to

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Emma O'Brien: having good relationships with people, to communicating well with people

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Emma O'Brien: is thinking through what you're doing before you do it, not being at the mercy of emotions, and and allowing kind of unconscious stuff to to run the show

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Emma O'Brien: one thing that stood out for me cause this has been something I've been talking about on my podcast is being able to approach those difficult conversations, and you talked about both of you being very conscious of choosing to have any big conversations when you were not in a state of being triggered.

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Emma O'Brien: Now, that's a very powerful decision to have made, because most people don't do that. In fact, just this morning something happened at home yesterday, and I was a little bit irked, and

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Emma O'Brien: ie.

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Emma O'Brien: Chose not to tackle it

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Emma O'Brien: just before my husband walked out the door this morning I wanted to.

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Emma O'Brien: and then I thought, What the hell good is it going to do to do this now? I'm agitated and annoyed. He knows I'm annoyed, and he's just about to leave for work. This is only gonna end one way.

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Emma O'Brien: So I'm just gonna taper back my need to conflict resolve immediately, because I've noticed that something I like to do is like, let's just get this dealt with. So we don't have this anymore. And then we can move on. And sometimes you have to learn to sit in the difficult feelings.

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Emma O'Brien: So anyway, it wasn't that, Major, but I and I thought, I'll be just

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Emma O'Brien: tackle it when I can say, please, could we have a conversation? Here is why I was annoyed this morning when you're not annoyed is the time to do it, and I think that's such a powerful insight that you've shared there, because

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Emma O'Brien: so often we make choices from a space of being triggered, of being angry, of being jealous of being, and they are. That's not a good place to make

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Emma O'Brien: decisions from

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Emma O'Brien: at all.

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Jessica Frew: And that is information like, you don't want to ignore those feelings. You don't want to just suppress them and push them down. You're doing exactly like what you're saying. And I think some people get those 2 things confused. We're not saying you ignore it. We're not saying you push it down. We're not saying you don't acknowledge that it's there.

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Jessica Frew: but often having the conversation around. What happened is better in an hour or 2, you know, like later that day, and sometimes, you know, people will push like we need to have this conversation. Now, if you're not ready saying like, I want to have this conversation with you, but I am not in the right emotional space to have it and still

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Jessica Frew: be constructive. I want to come out of this conversation, still loving and appreciating you, or still supporting you, or whatever that relationship looks like. And therefore this isn't the time for me to have that conversation, and there were many times like Steve, and I would say that like I'd be like, Hey, I want to talk about this. He's like I can't right now.

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Jessica Frew: I I see it. I will have this conversation with you, but I can't emotionally right now, and vice versa, and we got really good at just respecting that and each other. And okay, I I understand that. Take your time because we're processing through a lot here, and we'll come back to it.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah, I mean, that's a huge huge amount of things to go through. One thing that you talked about was learning to trust your gut. So you shared that you'd been brought up in a very Christian, very conservative household, and I think often when there is a lot of external programming that's put on you, and this is very common for women. It's something I see is.

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Emma O'Brien: I'll have women say to me. I did

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Emma O'Brien: this I knew in my heart, or I knew in my gut, told me that it wasn't the right thing to do, but I went ahead and did it anyway.

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Emma O'Brien: So just talk to me a little bit about

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Emma O'Brien: the process of relearning to trust your gut when

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Emma O'Brien: you've not been allowed to.

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Emma O'Brien: Yes, I think it's a process. It's 1 you have to kind of. You've got to jump in, and you know, not even jump in. You've got to sort of step in and out a little bit with it to feel it out. Yeah, just talk to me about what that was like for you.

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Jessica Frew: Yeah, for me. I've been someone who at a young age was taught to trust my gut, even though I was in this conservative Christian religion.

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Jessica Frew: i i i've realized I didn't have the same experience as most people where. Yes, there's an authority figure. We're supposed to do what we're told type thing, and also I knew that I could do what I needed and trust that. And so I think that's a gift that I was given. But I saw that at a young age I remember so part of my whole platform is to be bold, and that was instilled in me by my dad, he would say, when I was trying to make a big decision, or even a small decision, he'd be like

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Jessica Frew: like BB, Jessica, BB. Which meant to be bold and true to my heart, and do what was right for me, and I always knew I had that support of my parents, even if they didn't fully understand or agree with it. They were there behind me most of the time, you know, but and so I've been able to build on that, and really just have this deep connection to myself. Now I lost that

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Jessica Frew: when I was in my second marriage, starting out, my second marriage is when I really felt like I lost that connection.

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Jessica Frew: and I spiraled into this need to prove my worth need to prove my value, so that Matt would my second husband would keep me around. I needed him to know that I was worth keeping around. I needed his ex wife to know. I needed to set his kids to know, like I had something to prove, and it almost ended our marriage, and partially because he was working through his own crap and in him, working through his own crap. I felt him pulling away, and therefore I'm grasping at straws to bring him in.

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Jessica Frew: and I left him at 1 point.

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Jessica Frew: and I was like, I'm done. I'm losing myself. And I thought I was afraid to lose him, and I realized I was more afraid to lose myself in that moment, and I came back a couple days later. He wasn't real happy that I was coming back. I was like, I am coming back, though, and I didn't speak this to him. I just knew in my heart if I am coming back to try this one more time, because I knew we were good together. We just needed to figure out a lot of stuff.

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Jessica Frew: I'm coming back, being true to myself and trusting my gut and making those decisions. And it comes at one decision at a time is what I I tell women. And I'm like, this starts with, what do you actually want to put on your body.

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Jessica Frew: What is going to feel good

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Jessica Frew: for you to dress in today? Not what you should wear, and not what you've been told you should wear and again in like Christian conservative upbringing. You know I was very much trained. You don't show you don't wear tank tops. You wear certain things and all this stuff, and so trusting that in yourself of like. But what feels right for me and good for me. And then there were things like, What do. I want to eat?

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Jessica Frew: I don't. Even most of us don't even know, because we've been like. 1st of all, I need to be healthy, and I need to whatever. And all of these things around that. And then also, I have to. Most of us are feeding other people along the way, and so we don't know what it is we actually want. We're just taking in everybody else's information. So I always tell people to start very small. You start really small, and the more you start telling that voice inside of you that you are going to listen to it, and you are going to act on it. You can't just hear it.

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Jessica Frew: You have to act on it. The louder it gets, and the clearer it gets, and the more confident you are that sometimes I'm going to make a mistake on this decision. But it's just information on the other side. It doesn't mean I'm a failure. It doesn't mean that I'm doing anything wrong. It just is information of like, Hey, you tried this thing. It didn't work. It's not for you. And now you go the other direction, and you can do that with confidence and clarity, and you can act with concision. And so it's just this, very

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Jessica Frew: step by step, doable process, because that's the other thing is, we get like all wrapped up into. Ask me all or nothing, and I have to make these drastic changes, and that doesn't serve us. It has to be one little small thing at a time, and then we gain that confidence in ourselves and entrusting our gut. And we're like, Okay, I can trust this. I can act on this.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah, I think that's so powerful. The because often I think

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Emma O'Brien: as women. And this is something I coach people around as well is.

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Emma O'Brien: women don't know what they want, because, like you said that women, a lot of women, are inherent people, pleasers.

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Emma O'Brien: Perhaps they've been in situations where their confidence has been completely eroded. It's I mean, it's no no surprise to me that you said when you felt your second husband pulling away, that you started to be very triggered by that, because it's a woo. It's a deep wound that you had to to work through and do your own work to

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Emma O'Brien: and and work with that to to move

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Emma O'Brien: through that.

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Emma O'Brien: And you know, kudos to you for for doing that, because I think nobody would have blamed you for making a hasty exit, because, you know, I mean, what are the what are the chances of 2 gay husbands? But I mean, never say no.

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Jessica Frew: Yeah. Ryan.

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Emma O'Brien: How unfortunate could one person be? I don't know.

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Jessica Frew: Thank heavens, that that didn't happen, and I haven't known anybody yet that that has happened to. But it's like the biggest fear women who have been through this situation, Carrie. They're like well, I didn't know the 1st time. How will I know the second time I'm like, oh, you will be able to tell. Trust me.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah, yeah.

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Jessica Frew: Course is the.

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Emma O'Brien: That is.

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Jessica Frew: Be the signs.

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Emma O'Brien: I think you could be that I don't think it could happen to you twice. But jerry's out there, folks. If anyone knows anybody who that has happened to. I think we need to hear about it. So just talk me through. So you've talked about making decisions really easy, making them really small

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Emma O'Brien: and making it manageable, especially if you've not been asking yourself, what is it I actually want? So let's say, actually, you're living in a life that you don't really want.

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Emma O'Brien: That's something you've got to change one choice at a time.

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Jessica Frew: Yes, I.

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Emma O'Brien: I mean don't know depends how how risk averse you are. But I don't think that's time to up

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Emma O'Brien: upturn everything. It starts.

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Jessica Frew: Yeah.

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Emma O'Brien: You've said with small things. What is it I want?

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Emma O'Brien: What is it I want instead?

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Emma O'Brien: What's in the way of that? And what's the smallest step I can take to start to move myself towards that.

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Jessica Frew: Yeah.

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Jessica Frew: yeah, it's part of like smallerizing these decisions and then exploring the options before we jump at this huge drastic thing. And sometimes you are just ready for the leap, because you have sat in it for so long. But most of the time it's like, okay, let's fill out what it might be like to start doing things on my own, because very often, when we're in a life or a relationship, it's usually a relationship or even a relationship with your job where you're like, I am not happy or content.

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Jessica Frew: What does it? We're in a codependent situation, like we are in a unhealthy relationship with our partner or an unhealthy relationship with our job.

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Jessica Frew: And what steps can I take to start releasing the codependency, or whatever that? So can I do one thing a week that is just for me. Is there something that I can do that feels good each day outside of this relationship with my partner and start feeling what it feels like to do things on your own, or to even start like I'm not content in my job.

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Jessica Frew: What is it that I might want like start exploring just other jobs of like these simple things I think we overlook because it seems so basic.

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Emma O'Brien: Yes.

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Jessica Frew: So I could just see what this feels like. I could talk to somebody in that industry and pick their brain of like my, would this fulfill these things that I'm wanting to do? Instead? I think often we just jump. We either jump too big, or we don't jump at all, I think there's like this huge thing. And so we have to go through this process like, what if we just take smaller steps? And I call it smallerizing. I got that word from one of my coaches a long time ago. I was like, that is exactly

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Jessica Frew: what we do. We smallerize things. We are going to make it chop it down into these little doable steps. When people are ready to leave their partner if they really think they're ready, I'll be like, okay, well, let's feel out. Because again, like the big concern is finances or whatever I'm like, you need to have a call. With this I have different contacts with these people who will help you? Look at your finances.

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Jessica Frew: What do you need in place, so that you actually feel empowered going into this process. And if you get in there, and you're like, not just because of finances. But you start going through this process. And you're like, you know what. I don't really want a divorce, but I do need to heal this other thing on the other side to be able to make it through. It starts giving you that information like just taking the action gives you that information. And it doesn't mean you have to get a divorce just because you're looking into it. It just means you are making a conscious choice

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Jessica Frew: to stay on the other end. So like it gives you an actual choice instead of just that should. Well, I should stay, and when we should on ourselves it's placing judgment, and it is telling ourselves, no, I have to do this thing. This is what I'm supposed to do. This is what I've been told I need to do. Instead of being like well, I could stay, or I could leave

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Jessica Frew: what actually feels good in my heart, so we gotta break it down.

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Emma O'Brien: I think that's just so brilliant. If you're thinking about doing something big, if you're thinking about a big decision, take the time to dip a toe in the water like you've said, research. It gather information. Then you are making a decision from a place of really actively choosing cause. I think something a lot of people do is they leave one relationship

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Emma O'Brien: because it's not great. Don't do any inner work, jump into another one, find that it's really unfortunate, but the same pattern seems to be playing out again, and it will keep going until you take the time to heal the stuff

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Emma O'Brien: and healing the stuff might mean doing your own work and staying and having some difficult conversations and going to couples, counselling.

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Emma O'Brien: that's it. And that's a hell of a lot less stressful than going from husband to a wife whatever to again and again and again. Jessica, talk to me about your triple B decision making formula. I'm quite intrigued by this.

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Jessica Frew: Yeah. And this stems from going back to that. Be bold mindset of like, okay, this is what I was taught. This is how I work through things, and people come to me all the time they're like. But how do I do this? And I'm like, this is how and it is.

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Jessica Frew: So there's 3 steps that we focus on in the triple, obviously triple B, but it is. 1st we are going to be gentle with ourselves. We are so hard on ourselves and so judgmental. And we think that that is going to propel us forward, and that is going to get us taking action. But it's not until we can be gentle and loving with ourselves and give ourselves Grace. We can't move forward.

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Jessica Frew: And so that's that 1st step is we are going to learn to be gentle and gracious with ourselves, and then we are going to be humble. Which means that we are going to learn about ourselves. It doesn't mean we're going to be a doormat. It doesn't mean that we do all these things, but it means we release our ego of well, this is the way my life has to look. This is the way it should look. This is what I wanted from day one, and I'm determined I'm going to stay in this and figure it out

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Jessica Frew: when it's not even serving us anymore. So we release that ego. We are humble, and we start into that process of the research and understanding we get to know ourselves, we understand our values, and then we can go to the next step, which is, be bold and take the action. So there's like this, like we're saying, like, you want to do research, you want to explore things you don't want to get stuck here, because we often will get stuck there, too, because it feels comfortable, and it feels safe to not

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Jessica Frew: take this next action that seems scary. And so then we have to actually be bold and take the action. That's where we take, like the leap of faith and do those things. So that's kind of this process that we go through is being gentle, and then we get to be humble and release that ego, and then we get to be bold and take action on that.

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Emma O'Brien: Sounds absolutely brilliant, and I think that's the thing, isn't it?

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Emma O'Brien: When you are information gathering? That's great. But you like you said you can't stay there cause nothing changes, just because you've got some information. You have to take action. You have to do something, and you've talked about. It doesn't have to be a massive thing. You can start by taking small actions to build your confidence and figure out what could be an option for you instead, you know, as an alternative absolutely brilliant. This has been such a wonderful

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Emma O'Brien: conversation. I've really really enjoyed talking to you, Jessica. Thank you for joining me. You.

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Jessica Frew: And free.

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Emma O'Brien: Shop coming up. Could you share a little bit about that for the listeners? So for anyone who's listening and and wants to get a taste of what it's like to work with. You. Just tell us about that.

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Jessica Frew: Yes. So this workshop is called your next best decision, and it is designed to help you create some momentum in your life. Of one little thing that you can, that you can take action on, so we help you gain that clarity. I work you through these next 3 steps a little bit more, or the triple B formula a little bit more, so that you can understand how that works, and see how you can utilize that in your life. I am all about

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Jessica Frew: helping women take their next steps like there is nothing more exciting to me than watching a woman

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Jessica Frew: step into our life instead of letting life happen to them, going to life, happening for them and embracing that, and figuring out that they are the catalyst in that like this, you will leave that workshop feeling like, Oh, my gosh!

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Jessica Frew: I do have a voice in my life. I get to have this power in my life. I get to have a say no longer letting somebody else determine, or a situation determine the trajectory of my life. And so that's kind of the things that we go through. It is free, so you can come, can see. You know. Obviously, I have offers on that of ways that we can work together. But it's such a great place to start and it works out

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Jessica Frew: perfectly. I'm talking to you now, because it'll happen shortly after this interview, so I believe it's August 28th is the date for that. So you can come and enjoy that.

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Emma O'Brien: Amazing, and Amen to all of that of choosing life and having life happen for you rather than to you. It's a tiny, it's a tiny word shift. But it's a huge life shift when you stop being a passenger, and you get yourself into the driving seat

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Emma O'Brien: and take it where you want it to go so so important that that you're here doing that work. So thank you. And where can folks connect with you online if they want to find you on socials or go to your website. Where can they find.

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Jessica Frew: And yeah.

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Jessica Frew: so my website is, Hey, Jessica frue.com. You can find me there, and you can. Also, there's a should score quiz. So if you're shooting all over yourself in your life, you can see how much and where you are shooting on yourself. I am on Instagram. That is where I'm the most active at hey, Jessica, Fru, as well. And then I have a podcast called your next best decision. So you can go check that out.

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Emma O'Brien: Amazing. I'm gonna pop all the links in the show notes for folks. They can come and find you. Jessica. Thank you for joining me today. This has been a really great conversation, and such a powerful one. I believe that it's time for women to get empowered now and step up, and

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Emma O'Brien: you know, take take some of the power back, take up more space, stop apologizing, and this is.

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Jessica Frew: Yeah, been a.

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Emma O'Brien: Conversation. We're here for all of that. So thank you very much.

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Jessica Frew: Yeah, thanks for having me.

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Emma O'Brien: Thank you for listening folks. I really hope you've enjoyed this episode, and I will see you same time next week bye, for now.