Episode 20: Leveraging the Power of your Personal Brand to Transform your Career with Carol O'Kelly

Does the concept of 'personal branding' conjure up ideas of colour wheels and image consultants? 

Perhaps you're employed and unsure if having a 'personal brand' is even applicable to you?

If you want to become memorable, get hired for the role you covet or understand how to confidently talk about exactly what it is you do, this is the podcast episode for you.

My guest, THE amazing Carol O'Kelly, a specialist in the field of personal branding for women shares how to tap your innate authenticity, skillset and brilliance to land the opportunities that will propel your career or business forwards.

Episode highlights:

• A definition of exactly what a personal brand is and isn't 
• Carol's essential personal branding pillars
• How to get clear on your authentic value
• Owning your skillset, confidently talking about what you do AND making sure you're memorable
• Understanding your strengths and weaknesses so you can bridge the gap between the two
• Defining your unique brand voice
• Using value-laden stories to self-promote without the 'ick' factor
• Choosing the impact you want to make
• Your top 5 value bullets
• How to adjust your message to your audience without compromising your authenticity
• The art of being interesting

Carol shared incredible value in this episode which will benefit folks in the corporate space as well as business owners.

I have no doubt that Carol will have left you wanting more, so go ahead and sign up for her FREE Creating Impact Masterclass series here.

Visit Carol's website www.redstorm.ie

Connect with Carol on LinkedIn here.

If you’re done playing small and ready to lead yourself — you’re in the right place.

I’m Emma O’Brien — Martha Beck trained and certified life coach, HeartMath practitioner, and shamanic healer helping high-achieving women stop second-guessing themselves and finally trust their own voice.

Through nervous system re-calibration, strategic coaching, and deep energetic work, I help you move from self-doubt to self-trust so you can create a life you actually want to be in — no external approval required.

🌀 Want to work together?

 Explore the 6-week Nervous System Reset, 1:1 coaching, or Shamanic Soul Retrieval sessions here: emmaobriencoach.com

Questions or ready to chat?

 DM me on Instagram @emmaobriencoach
or book a free connection call HERE.

Transcript

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Emma O'Brien: Hi folks welcome to season 2. Episode, 20 of the lemons and pineapples, podcast this is the last in the series of podcasts focusing on women's empowerment, and I'm very excited to share my guest with you today. Who is Carol O'kelly

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Emma O'Brien: who is going to be sharing how to use the power of personal branding to transform your career 1st a bit about Carol. She is a strategic marketing and business development expert. She's an international keynote speaker, author.

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Emma O'Brien: a personal branding specialist and the CEO of redstorm communications. Carol has worked with many high profile brands over the last 20 years, both in Ireland, the Uk and the Us. And she's captured the attention of one of the leading

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Emma O'Brien: hang on! I'm going to start that again.

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Emma O'Brien: Carol has captured attention as one of the leading proponents of personal branding for high level C-suite executives, female founders, and international organizations, having worked with leadership teams in companies such as Ernst and young Kpmg. Linkedin and Enterprise Island. Carol's mission is to help as many women as possible discover a deep inner belief in their capabilities.

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Emma O'Brien: ignite impactful personal brands that express their own powerful brand voice to confidently embrace their authentic iconic identity, welcome to the podcast, carol.

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Carol OKelly: Thank you, Emma. That was some introduction. I'm all about authenticity, and I'm honestly listening to that thinking.

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Carol OKelly: That's actually not. That's actually not me, but it is. I suppose it is me, but it's very difficult. When you different. When you hear about it. You're about yourself in those terms.

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Emma O'Brien: I know, and I think that's the thing. When often when I read intros, out you go. Oh, that's me! Huh!

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Emma O'Brien: I forgot how brilliant I was. And I think this is. This is a perfect kind of segue into this conversation today, because I think you know, a lot of the work you do is about helping women really step into their own power and their own brilliance. I think, as women, we, we struggle with that.

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Emma O'Brien: Can you start us off with this conversation by sharing what exactly, is a personal brand.

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Carol OKelly: I'll tell you. I'll start you off with telling you exactly what isn't a personal brand. That's

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Carol OKelly: this is always my intro, because I speak a lot on international stages. I work with women, one to one.

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Carol OKelly: and I work with teams, and I work with female leadership pipelines and corporates.

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Carol OKelly: and I'm always up against as a speaker. I'm always up against a photographer or a stylist who says.

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Carol OKelly: Well, now, if you if you're less comfortable, wearing pink

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Carol OKelly: and more comfortable. Say, wearing teal, that's your personal brand. So if you're more comfy with your left shoulder forward than your right shoulder forward.

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Carol OKelly: then put your left shoulder forward. That's your personal brand.

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Carol OKelly: and it drives me wild because we've done 12 years of research in international corporates and with international banks. That Fund female founders and female entrepreneurs.

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Carol OKelly: Women lose out hugely in business, in work, in corporate.

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Carol OKelly: I suppose. What is now what is less common now is that corporate linear career journey.

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Carol OKelly: because they don't say my name is Carol, and I'm brilliant at what I do, and it doesn't come naturally to us.

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Carol OKelly: But personal branding is not your the colors you wear. It's not the style of clothing you wear. It's not

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Carol OKelly: whether you wear glasses on a bun. It's not whether you've got hair, like Emma's beautiful blonde, curly hair like mine that was soaked this morning in the rain in Ireland.

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Carol OKelly: straight into the podcast looking slightly, not as good as I can sometimes sometimes look.

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Carol OKelly: Personal branding is a very deep, strategic.

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Carol OKelly: purposeful positioning of the value that I bring

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Carol OKelly: to the marketplace or to the world, or

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Carol OKelly: to my community, or to my school, to my university. But it's very

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Carol OKelly: purposeful. It's done with huge intention.

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Carol OKelly: and it is a deep strategic positioning of you.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Carol OKelly: And it entails several different pillars, and we'll go through those, probably throughout this chat.

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Carol OKelly: But it's strategic. It doesn't matter what I wear.

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Carol OKelly: It doesn't matter what I look like unless I am going for the CEO job in a bank, and I show up in jeans and a T-shirt. I mean we have to be a little bit

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Carol OKelly: copped on, copped on, if that's a great Irish term copped on about the way we appear.

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Carol OKelly: but it is strategic, purposeful positioning of my value.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah. And I think, coming back to what you've said about women.

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Emma O'Brien: I guess there's centuries really of conditioning here, of of the good girl complex of oh, you know. Make sure you're quiet, and you're not, too, you know. You don't stand out too much. And compared to men who, I think often

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Emma O'Brien: I'm just going to say it. As it is, there are a hell of a lot of very average men out there

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Emma O'Brien: talking themselves up, and I think, getting hired for positions, because they just own

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Emma O'Brien: who they want to be, I think not necessarily even who they are, and as women.

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Carol OKelly: That's that's exactly the point. It's not that we are

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Carol OKelly: less good at speaking out. It's that we are literally

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Carol OKelly: outspoken in a hyphenated way outspoken by somebody who is very often mediocre.

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Carol OKelly: I work with an awful lot of women going for promotion, for example, or going for boards or international positions.

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Carol OKelly: and you know you see those job descriptions, and they'll say, Well, I've only done 19 of the 20, so I won't put my name forward.

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Carol OKelly: A man will look at it and go. I've done 2 of those.

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Carol OKelly: So given the chance, I'll be amazing. And in fairness

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Carol OKelly: they're really good at doing that. And we, as women, need to learn that.

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Emma O'Brien: Yes.

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Emma O'Brien: yeah, I agree.

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Carol OKelly: Learn that entirely, that it's.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Emma O'Brien: yeah, yeah. And

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Emma O'Brien: how do we go about doing that? I think because when we've been schooled into and and this is my my take on it

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Emma O'Brien: is, it's not ladylike to be arrogant

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Emma O'Brien: again. It's not even arrogant talking your skills up unless you're you know, lying

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Emma O'Brien: It's not arrogant. But but, my my take on it is that one could come across as being arrogant, or one could come across as being full of yourself, and it's not ladylike, and it's it's, you know, it's not elegant.

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Emma O'Brien: somehow. And again, this is my take on it that somehow it's elegant to just sit and look pretty in the corner, shut up and be overlooked for promotion, and just just be the PA

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Emma O'Brien: cause, that's you know. That's that's that's all.

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Carol OKelly: We're so good at doing that.

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Emma O'Brien: Good at doing that. We're good at doing that. So how do I change this.

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Carol OKelly: Well, I think.

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Carol OKelly: looking at yourself authentically.

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Carol OKelly: You know you're really good at what you do. Most women know what they're good at doing.

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Carol OKelly: They're not necessarily good about explaining it, because there's the fear of

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Carol OKelly: actually vocalizing the fact that I'm good at something.

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Carol OKelly: and I don't know whether it's the fear that I'm that I've been taught not to say not to be the one to jump up first.st

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Carol OKelly: I don't know. I think a lot of people, a lot of

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Carol OKelly: people in general, but a lot of women specifically have this thing. And again, it's a real Irish phrase. You meet a woman. She was in school with you. She was hopeless at maths. Now she's head of some

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Carol OKelly: global cooperation, and women will often

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Carol OKelly: kind of look sideways and go. I mean, who does she think she is?

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Emma O'Brien: Like, you just.

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Carol OKelly: She's

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Carol OKelly: so that's what we have developed a framework now, over the last, probably 8 years. That framework has gone into

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Carol OKelly: the formulation of corporate programs of programs that I would work with a woman like you, a woman like any of your listeners. I'd bring it into corporates, into teams. We've done so much research into the different pillars that go into building a personal brand.

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Carol OKelly: Yeah. And if you work gently, and I would always use the word gently and with ease, and authentically all overused words, but all used in this instance for quite a specific purpose.

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Carol OKelly: If you work your way gently through those pillars

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Carol OKelly: that fear is absolutely eliminated.

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Carol OKelly: The imposter syndrome piece that women are, you go to a woman's conference. Somebody. There's always a speaker on imposter syndrome, my journey and my imposter syndrome.

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Carol OKelly: And yes, it's a very real thing, but it's a very easy thing to overcome.

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Emma O'Brien: So read to me, more about that, yeah.

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Carol OKelly: So we work with things. I think. I mean, I work with women of every level. Yeah.

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Carol OKelly: there's there's self-doubt, and there's there's fear of being seen as X as the ball she won as the who does she think she is? Oh, look! She was in my class in school, I mean? Who does she think she is? Now?

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Carol OKelly: If we work through the pillars things like what it so the 1st pillar is always me.

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Carol OKelly: The value that I bring.

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Carol OKelly: It doesn't matter if we both did the same university degree if we both went to the same school. I then did a different job. I played a different sport. I dated different guys or girls.

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Carol OKelly: I

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Carol OKelly: traveled on my own. You traveled on your. I lost all my bags on my passport, whereas you had a wonderful experience. All of those things are are similar.

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Carol OKelly: but the end product is incredibly different.

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Carol OKelly: So even if your background or your education is quite similar to somebody else in the market or somebody else that you can see

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Carol OKelly: very often.

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Carol OKelly: it's the culmination of those little incidental stories that will make up this wonderful package.

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Carol OKelly: So yes, you and I can both work in communications. You and I could both be actuaries. You and I could both be deep tech founders.

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Carol OKelly: But the actual value the package that I'm bringing to market is very different.

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Carol OKelly: So the 1st thing in a personal brand is. You need to know what that package is.

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Carol OKelly: and you need to know it honestly, you need to know the weaknesses in that package, and you need to know the real strengths. And if there's a gap

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Carol OKelly: that you feel is actually letting you down, get to know that gap and fill that gap. Yeah.

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Carol OKelly: then the next most important piece is the brand voice.

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Carol OKelly: And this is how I communicate how I chat with you. For example, we had a good old chat before this recording started. We'll have another little chat at the end of this recording. No doubt there'll be a lot of giggles and a lot of laughter, because we are both very good at what we do.

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Carol OKelly: but very easy.

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Carol OKelly: and our voices, our brand voices, are chatty, easy voices.

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Carol OKelly: so I can tell you what I mean. I wrote that fire that I sent you. I wrote it myself over the last. What 5 or 6 years it gets added to.

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Carol OKelly: but when I hear it in somebody else's voice. It actually makes me quite uncomfortable.

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Carol OKelly: So it's if I told you now.

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Carol OKelly: my bio.

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Carol OKelly: it would sound very different, because it's in my voice.

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Carol OKelly: So it's how you tell somebody how good you actually are.

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Carol OKelly: That's your brand voice, so that you're not the woman who is going me me. I'm the best. Me, me! I'm the best. Nobody wants that.

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Carol OKelly: But equally nobody wants you to go home saying, but why did I not get that slot because I was perfect at that slot.

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Carol OKelly: and I hear that a lot with women.

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Carol OKelly: There's so much more in me that nobody knows. How do I get that out there? Your brand voice.

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Carol OKelly: Yeah.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah. And what I hear in there is getting to know your strengths. And I guess there's an element of

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Emma O'Brien: practicing how you deliver that writing out and getting succinct with it. I've I had a 1 of my coaching clients. Actually, it's a conversation along these lines of

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Emma O'Brien: Why can't people just come and find me.

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Emma O'Brien: And I said to her, But you're going to be waiting forever if you want people to come and find you, and that's what I hear when you say to me. You know there's.

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Carol OKelly: Every time.

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Emma O'Brien: Women go home, and then why did nobody pick me?

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Emma O'Brien: Because there was somebody else who'd who'd got in touch with their strengths, had written there, I mean, I don't know. Do people use the phrase elevator pitch? It's been a long time since I've been to a networking meeting and had to deliver an elevator pitch, but it's being able to. When someone says to you, What is it you do, Carol, to just deliver it? Not? Oh, well, you know.

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Emma O'Brien: been on a couple of international stages. But you know, whatever I mean, it's just. It's it doesn't inspire confidence unless you're able to confidently deliver

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Emma O'Brien: what you do, and I think that's a big.

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Carol OKelly: Yeah, it's it's confidence, but it's also comfort.

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Emma O'Brien: Hmm.

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Carol OKelly: So if I deliver my brand, value my brand story, and that really to me, as a woman who runs a business a bit like yourself.

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Carol OKelly: My brand story is what I do. So do I go in there with my 30 second elevator pitch. I am the CEO of a Communications agency we're based in Ireland. We work mainly in the Us. And the UK.

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Carol OKelly: We specialize with senior female leaders, and we work on their personal brands and positioning.

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Carol OKelly: If I deliver that in a network. That's what I do on paper. Of course it is. If I deliver that in a network

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Carol OKelly: situation, people go. I'm just going to grab a cup of tea, and they legit

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Carol OKelly: because that brand voice is not.

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Carol OKelly: It's not my brand. It's not.

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Carol OKelly: It's not me literally making friends. People do business with people.

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Carol OKelly: If I want you to remember what I do, I've got to give you a hook.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Carol OKelly: Something that you can hook onto, so you can introduce me to somebody else and go. This is the girl she works in

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Carol OKelly: personal brands, I think, mainly for women. Is that right?

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Carol OKelly: Yeah, it's you've you've written your story really again, gracefully and with ease, and you can just trot it out, deliver it.

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Carol OKelly: But people don't feel they're being sold to.

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Emma O'Brien: Yes.

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Carol OKelly: And another great way that women are superb at delivering value

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Carol OKelly: is by telling

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Carol OKelly: little value-laden stories about what they do.

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Carol OKelly: and you'll often see on my social media and side of things that Instagram Linkedin will often start with. I had a really interesting chat with a client during the week. Here is the question she asked me.

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Carol OKelly: This is the answer. This is the solution we came up with together, because people can then say.

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Carol OKelly: Oh, yeah, I've had that problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. So stories for women are very clever way without saying I'm amazing. Hire me is of showcasing what you've done, how you've done it, and who you've done it with.

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Emma O'Brien: Yes, yeah, yeah. And I think.

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Carol OKelly: Showing yourself at your most authentic. I was trying to get into a huge company in New York recently.

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Carol OKelly: and I started with the story about. When I was a bit anxious I was going in to deliver this massive masterclass to this brand, named the brand named the woman, who was very well known, and I said I was kind of anxious, because I was all you know dressed up. Had the hair done 200 people in the room, and I was anxious going in, and what I did was I did some breathing exercises before I walked on stage.

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Carol OKelly: Very interesting. What I really was saying was, This woman knows who I am. She met me personally at the door.

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Carol OKelly: I made the effort to get my hair done because it was important to me.

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Carol OKelly: I'm showing that I'm really quite normal and quite likable, because I was quite anxious. I then dropped in the fact that there was 200 people in the room. So I'm on a big audience.

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Carol OKelly: It's just an introductory story. So all you hear is the story. But you. I delivered the value bullets that I need

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Carol OKelly: to land with you.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah. And what I hear when you tell me that is.

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Emma O'Brien: Carol's on a stage in New York with somebody very well known for a big brand in front of 200 people, and she pulled it off.

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Emma O'Brien: and that for me. It gives you that the ultimate professional. If I'm looking for a keynote speaker.

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Emma O'Brien: I know you're going to deliver.

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Carol OKelly: Exactly, but I haven't said, did I tell you about the time I walked onto this massive stage in New York with a really well known person.

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Carol OKelly: because that's not likable, and you're not going to want to work with me, and it's not me that's not me. So I feel the the more women let each other get to know them.

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Carol OKelly: The better that personal brand comes across, and the much more likely I am than to repeat your story or to say to somebody.

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Carol OKelly: I know a woman who

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Carol OKelly: and that's where most work comes from.

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Carol OKelly: Yeah, word of mouth. And men are great at doing that.

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Emma O'Brien: Yes, I know, and I think I think it's it's always quite interesting, because I've been quite triggered by some men in a similar, you know, with the photography industry is an interesting one. So we know I'm a photographer as well as doing coaching.

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Emma O'Brien: and I found it quite triggering with some of the male photographers who trot round, and they're like, Oh, my God! I'm so amazing! But they're getting the sponsorship from the big brands, and they're getting. They're getting what they want. They're getting the coverage. They're getting the big jobs. And you have to look at it and say, Yeah, you might be triggered by it. But you have to stop hiding in a corner going. I really hope someone spots my stuff

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Emma O'Brien: and start to have a look at how can I also own what I do? How can I? Also, they're just going after opportunities. And I think, as women, we also we don't

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Emma O'Brien: not chase things down. That's not the right word, but we don't seek out and put ourselves forward.

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Carol OKelly: Get things done.

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Emma O'Brien: No.

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Carol OKelly: We don't. And it's an interesting

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Carol OKelly: piece that you mentioned there about.

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Carol OKelly: You know, photographers coming on and men in work coming on. And it's a question I get asked a lot because I would work a lot with Fintech finance male dominated Pharma.

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Carol OKelly: So you've got women quite high up in in leadership surrounded by men. Yeah. And the question is always the same, and it's always such an interesting question.

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Carol OKelly: should I become one of the lads.

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Carol OKelly: or do I go to the opposite extreme? Should I become a princess, and wear pink and pearls and satin.

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Carol OKelly: because women feel they either have to completely fit in and be one of the lads. Be one of the photographers walking around talking, you know, being a bit macho, talking the same way that the men do, or the complete opposite.

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Carol OKelly: and I would always say, you won't win on either of those extremes

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Carol OKelly: if you go down the middle, but make sure you deliver the same amount of value, and you talk about your value in the same way as the men do.

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Carol OKelly: but in a very feminine way, and in your own

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Carol OKelly: in your own chat patterns.

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Carol OKelly: Yeah, so important.

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Carol OKelly: Yeah. But I would say to women, Know your top 5 bullets, your value bullets for every audience

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Carol OKelly: that you think you're going to be in front of.

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Carol OKelly: and without going in going. My name is Caroline Kelly. I run, and yeah, and I do this, and I,

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Carol OKelly: if I'm going home on the train or going home in the car going okay, I met a guy who was head of this. I met a woman who was mid level. This I delivered those 2 value bullets to him, these 3 to her. I'm good, I'm golden, they know what I do. They know the value I bring. I was quite likable. I was easy. I was quite confident I wore something that suited me, and I chatted.

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Carol OKelly: That's a win.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Carol OKelly: I know

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Carol OKelly: what value I need to tell them about. And I tell them, yeah.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah. Yeah. And and to to use a really awful phrase, to circle background is.

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Emma O'Brien: you know

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Emma O'Brien: what value you bring. And I think that comes back to the second pillar that you shared is being crystal clear. On

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Emma O'Brien: what value you bring you personally as a, as a, as a human creature what you authentically bring to the table, and you can articulate that.

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Emma O'Brien: Carol. You said there were a few pillars. We've done 2. Could you tell me about some of the other ones.

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Carol OKelly: Why don't I tell you another one or 2? Tell.

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Emma O'Brien: You know the.

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Carol OKelly: Nobody likes to tell all their secrets.

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Emma O'Brien: No, absolutely not.

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Carol OKelly: One thing I would say, and we saw it very clearly after Covid.

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Carol OKelly: You can go on. Now. As I said before, personal branding is a very deep strategic positioning of me.

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Carol OKelly: You need to go quite honestly, quite deeply, inside yourself. You need to be very honest with yourself

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Carol OKelly: about. I'm actually really bad at doing this. I'm bad at finishing things. I'm bad at looking for the next piece of business. I'm bad at following up. I'm bad at accounting.

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Carol OKelly: Be honest with yourself. I'm good at

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Carol OKelly: connecting with people. I'm good. If somebody is going through a bit of a dicky time, I can go in, and I can be that bridge person. I'm really good at that.

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Carol OKelly: Never build your personal brand, as we saw in Covid, as we all did in Covid.

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Carol OKelly: I lived in a bedroom.

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Carol OKelly: and I built it in my little sanctuary. Then you open the door.

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Carol OKelly: and you're like, oh, oh, oh, so my audiences don't!

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Carol OKelly: They don't need this brand. They don't value this brand. They don't see a relevance in what I'm delivering.

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Carol OKelly: So yes, go deep, but constantly. Be mindful of not the one audience that you speak to.

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Carol OKelly: but of maybe I would say, 5 or 6 different audiences.

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Carol OKelly: So you've got clients, current clients. So say for us on this call. Today, we've got our current clients. We've got

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Carol OKelly: our prospective clients. We've got people that we might network with. We have people that we know

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Carol OKelly: that know other people that are looking for exactly what we offer. But we don't know that. Yeah. So look at who those connectors, those influencers, and those stakeholders are.

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Carol OKelly: and look at the value they need.

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Carol OKelly: and think about the voice that they will take up that value from. So you need a bit of thought leadership. But you don't want to be formal and sit back in your chair literally, people sit back and they tell you about themselves, and then they move in again. When they're so, everything adds to your brand. So if you're

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Carol OKelly: very aware of who are the different groups that you're talking to.

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Carol OKelly: and I use 3, I wouldn't say 3 pillars, but 3 stages, and each stage is mirrored.

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Carol OKelly: So the 1st one I would say to you is, what value do I bring to market.

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Emma O'Brien: -

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Carol OKelly: Be very clear.

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Carol OKelly: Have a look at your audiences and think about them buying from somebody like you. What value are they looking for?

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Carol OKelly: And what value do they value? And is my value the same? Because sometimes you can say, you know, I sell into Fintech, and I bring huge value to them.

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Carol OKelly: They're not looking for that value at all.

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Carol OKelly: Very careful that there's a nice close line between the 2. The next one, I would say, is, what relevance do I bring? Is the work, the thought leadership? The research is the piece of work I am bringing. Is it relevant?

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Carol OKelly: Is it in any way relevant to the market I'm selling into

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Carol OKelly: and looking at all your different audiences. So I would sell in a lot. I work almost exclusively with women on a 1 to one.

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Carol OKelly: The people that buy me are usually men.

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Carol OKelly: so I have to be very careful that they see the value in working on their female leadership pipelines.

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Carol OKelly: So I have to sell to their need there.

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Carol OKelly: whereas they're actually not going to sit in the room with me. I'm going to be working with women.

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Carol OKelly: The value that I deliver to them is very, very different.

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Carol OKelly: And then I need to look again and see.

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Carol OKelly: Am I working in 2 audience sectors that are relevant for me to grow my business? And again do those audience segments see relevance in me? And finally, and I think genuinely the hardest for women is what impact do I want to make?

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Carol OKelly: And women almost exclusively have an issue with the word impact. And I get that because impact means

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Carol OKelly: a 24 wheeler truck hitting a brick brick. Wall. It's

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Carol OKelly: impact. Yeah, but I don't. I don't. I am a lady. I don't want to make an impact.

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Carol OKelly: and I work with a lot of women with one woman who

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Carol OKelly: I don't think I've really heard her speak. She is so so quiet

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Carol OKelly: she makes the most incredible. She's the CEO. She makes the most incredible impact.

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Carol OKelly: So you don't need to be big and bulshy and loud and shouting, and

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Carol OKelly: I've only I've only done 2 of those things on the list. But if I get a chance I'd be amazing. Pick me, pick me.

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Carol OKelly: No woman wants that. Nobody wants to work with that either.

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Carol OKelly: So choose the impact you want to make.

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Carol OKelly: and again mirror that looking at your audiences and the people that are are looking to work with you, or might be able to connect you. Or

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Carol OKelly: if you're looking for funding, who's signing off on those pitches who's signing off on the seed funds?

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Carol OKelly: What impact do they need you to make in order for them to say, Yes.

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Carol OKelly: yeah. And that needs to be very deeply woven into that personal brand.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah. And I, you know, there's so many, so many layers to this. And there's almost this chameleon aspect of

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Emma O'Brien: paying huge attention to who's in the room you're in, and

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Emma O'Brien: I guess, adjusting yourself to to suit when it comes to to to landing the the business. Am I hearing that right.

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Carol OKelly: Yes, adjusting the message.

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Emma O'Brien: Yes.

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Carol OKelly: But not adjusting yourself.

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Emma O'Brien: Yep.

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Carol OKelly: So your personal brand is yourself. Me going to market my message for the man who's going to sign off on my funding, or the

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Carol OKelly: woman who is buying me in to work with her female leadership pipeline, or the one

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Carol OKelly: partner track, the one man who should get it. But just isn't really there.

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Carol OKelly: The message for each of those is different. I remain the same.

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Carol OKelly: Yes, my personal brand remains the same.

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Emma O'Brien: Yes, it's you.

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Carol OKelly: That's the only way it works, because that's where the authenticity comes in. And I always say to clients, you can be as polished and as you can bring the value, you can be as relevant as you want, you designed, and you've delivered your impact. And if somebody walks into you and I'm walking into the office with my cup of coffee, wearing my white shirt, and somebody goes sorry

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Carol OKelly: the coffee goes all the way down you the way you react.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Carol OKelly: That's you.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Carol OKelly: So the closer you can be the less shock when something goes wrong and you react. Oh, my God! What have you done?

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Carol OKelly: People then aren't shocked by your reaction.

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Carol OKelly: If they go, I really wasn't expecting you to react like that. You've broken all the trust that you've ever built with that person.

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Emma O'Brien: Yes, yeah. I can imagine if you're somebody who's walking around talking about how you're a great communicator, and you're wonderful with people.

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Carol OKelly: So, then.

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Emma O'Brien: I'm so sad. And then you punch the person who dropped coffee on you in the face.

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Emma O'Brien: that's a very extreme example there from Emma. But but I think that's it. If if you're you've got to be congruent with with who you say you are, and perhaps don't wear white.

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Carol OKelly: And a very simple.

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Emma O'Brien: Wearing white, with no coffee near me.

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Carol OKelly: That's why Carol wears black a lot.

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Carol OKelly: But a very simple example of that is, if I build my brand around certain sort of values that I know for a fact my audiences will really want. So if I.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Carol OKelly: For example, I'm a startup. Fintech.

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Carol OKelly: Yeah, I'm going for funding. And I say, I'm in the 5 Am Club. I run before work. I do this, I'm full of ideas. I, personally am very dynamic, high energy, and I'm like, Oh, my God! I'm going to bring her into the meeting.

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Carol OKelly: and then I come into the meeting 10 min late. Yep.

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Carol OKelly: slightly, you know people say it. I'm a little bit hung over this morning, and I'm like

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Carol OKelly: but no, no, this is not when I bought in.

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Carol OKelly: And then they say so, has anybody got any ideas, any innovative ideas? And you're like.

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Carol OKelly: Nope.

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Carol OKelly: I'm gonna click.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Carol OKelly: It's a very simple thing. People build their brand on what they expect others to want to expect from them.

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Carol OKelly: and then they don't live it.

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Carol OKelly: and there is no trust, and when there's no trust, you can't really build, trust back.

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Emma O'Brien: No.

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Carol OKelly: So, if.

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Emma O'Brien: No, absolutely.

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Carol OKelly: To do that.

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Emma O'Brien: You know.

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Carol OKelly: Build it on something.

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Carol OKelly: I get up at 8 o'clock in the morning, and I walk after work really simple, and I have great ideas, but I sometimes need time

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Carol OKelly: to sit with the problem. So don't you know?

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Carol OKelly: Land on me in a meeting and go? Ideas!

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Carol OKelly: So be clear about your brand. So therefore it's much easier to build, trust, and keep that trust.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah. And what I hear in there. And I think this is something I'm finding is so missing, for so many people is honest and integral communication of not feeling like, because you're in a room full of people who are in the 5 Am. Club that you have to lie about. The fact that you can't go up at 5 am.

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Emma O'Brien: It's okay.

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Carol OKelly: Different, is.

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Emma O'Brien: Different is good, absolutely, and if you can get the job done, but you happen to work, be somebody who works till midnight to do it. It's also completely okay. If you're delivering on what you're promising, and I think it's it's a great conversation piece.

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Emma O'Brien: yeah, you won't find me at the gym at 5 Am. In the morning. I can promise you that ever.

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Carol OKelly: I'm an ex swimmer, and I was always in the pool for about half 4 in the morning.

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Carol OKelly: Now I've gone the other extreme, and I will always work late, late. I have a big deadline this morning for clients. I worked until nearly 3 o'clock this morning.

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Emma O'Brien: Oh!

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Carol OKelly: World was dark, and I knew nobody else was working, and I felt this was like sneaky work time.

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Carol OKelly: And I was getting all of this amazing work done, and everyone else is asleep.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Carol OKelly: And I was like, this is brilliant because my mind goes whooshed in the small hours of the morning when I feel everybody else is watching TV or doing stuff.

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Carol OKelly: That's not me.

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Carol OKelly: It's not me.

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Emma O'Brien: No, no, and I just want to. Just to raise here that even though you're not swimming at 4 30 in the morning, you do swim in the sea.

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Carol OKelly: I do swim in the sea almost every day in the Irish Sea, which is not.

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Emma O'Brien: Irish Sea, no.

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Carol OKelly: Warm.

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Emma O'Brien: No, no, no! No no

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Carol OKelly: You know, type.

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Emma O'Brien: Hat off to you. I won't get into water or a pool unless it's heated, unless it's, you know, bath temperature. Then Emma will be in there.

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Carol OKelly: Yeah, yeah.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah, anyway.

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Carol OKelly: Way. That is my! That is my 5 o'clock in the Morning Club, and I do drop that into a lot of conversations. I was in the sea this morning.

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Emma O'Brien: There you do. Yes, but people.

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Carol OKelly: Yes.

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Emma O'Brien: You very differently.

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Carol OKelly: It's something different about me. People think absolutely nuts during the summer everyone goes. So was I.

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Carol OKelly: Come November.

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Emma O'Brien: I'm a rape.

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Carol OKelly: March. They're like.

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Emma O'Brien: No, no, no, no.

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Carol OKelly: Something they remember about me.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Emma O'Brien: I'll bet it is.

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Carol OKelly: People are human. People are genuinely interested in other people. What time do you go to bed? What time do you go? What do you eat for lunch? What do you have for breakfast? Oh, he did an ironman. Oh, how did you do your exams? And you were working full time. They're just genuinely interested. So as a real clever hook with a personal brand

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Carol OKelly: is, give me something to remember about you.

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Carol OKelly: something positive or something different.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah.

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Emma O'Brien: brilliant. I love it. And I think it's just. And it comes back to your authenticity piece of it's actually okay to show up as you, I mean, you know you might not show up, as you know, you might not bring all of your strange pastimes into the 1st meeting you have with a client, but.

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Carol OKelly: All of that.

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Emma O'Brien: Depending what you do, you know, but but I think it's a great talking point for people, and it also.

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Emma O'Brien: I think when you share things like you go and swim in the Irish Sea. There's a whole load of subtext under there for me as well. There's somebody who pushes through a great deal of discomfort. There's somebody who who does something that not a lot of people do. There's so many other things underneath that that I think, speak to how it would be to work with you if I hired you, and I know I'm reading a lot into that.

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Carol OKelly: But that's the crux of it. What a personal brand is going to do.

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Emma O'Brien: Yes.

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Carol OKelly: You tell me, do I want to work with you or not? Yeah. And if I'm like, for example, next week, I'm giving 2 full day sessions to 2 separate companies back to back.

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Carol OKelly: and I will say, if if anybody's at them.

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Carol OKelly: you'll catch me out, I would say at the beginning.

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Carol OKelly: Looking around the room.

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Carol OKelly: I will ask everybody to introduce themselves.

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Carol OKelly: You will always get

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Carol OKelly: without exception. I have 25 years experience. I'm fully qualified in whatever it is that I do. Blah blah on and on and on.

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Carol OKelly: but at the end of that I'll say I cannot tell you who I would like to work with in this room.

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Carol OKelly: doesn't you're all fully qualified. You've all got, you know, 20 years experience.

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Carol OKelly: I couldn't tell you. After the tea break.

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Carol OKelly: when we will not talk about work. We will not talk about anything but the traffic, the rain.

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Carol OKelly: somebody's baby, somebody's dog that wouldn't come in.

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Carol OKelly: Then I'll tell you exactly who I'd want to work with, and I'll be right

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Carol OKelly: because it

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Carol OKelly: easy over the coffee chat.

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Carol OKelly: Then I know what you're like.

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Carol OKelly: Yeah. So the.

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Emma O'Brien: So.

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Carol OKelly: Get me

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Carol OKelly: to know you that way, the faster I will say, Oh, yeah, yeah, she's the girl I need.

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Emma O'Brien: Excellent, so so many takeaways from this conversation. This is a brilliant one. So

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Emma O'Brien: the next time I'm pitching a stress management course to hr, I'm going to lead with

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Emma O'Brien: in my spare time. I like to swim with humpback whales.

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Emma O'Brien: They're not going to forget that.

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Carol OKelly: There you go.

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Carol OKelly: maybe even my pet humpback whale.

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Emma O'Brien: Pond isn't big enough. The swimming pool, Slash Pond. It's not big enough.

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Carol OKelly: Pond. You need a bigger pond.

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Emma O'Brien: Know that anyone's got a big enough pond for that? Carol.

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Carol OKelly: I know it.

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Emma O'Brien: That note I would like to. I'm going to wrap us up.

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Emma O'Brien: But I'd like you to talk a little bit. You've got a creating impact series of masterclasses that are starting on the 7th of November. So I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people who've listened to this and thought

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Emma O'Brien: I need some more

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Emma O'Brien: Carol time.

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Emma O'Brien: Just tell us a little bit about that masterclass series, what it's about, and and how people can sign up for that.

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Carol OKelly: Okay, so

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Carol OKelly: biggest part of my job is to explain to people what personal branding is. And secondly, why do you need to build a good

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Carol OKelly: likable value, laden personal brand.

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Carol OKelly: and how to get visibility on that personal brand.

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Carol OKelly: And the education piece is huge. So I run an awful lot of free sessions to try and build that awareness mainly for women. Men are always always welcome.

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Carol OKelly: So this series is going to be 5 to 7 master classes depending on how much we get into each one. Each one is an hour. They're completely free. They're live on zoom. There's a landing page that I'm going to give Emma the details of it's 1 h the 1st one is called from vision to impact. So, looking at your personal brand, what is the vision you have for yourself.

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Carol OKelly: What would you like to walk into the room and people go? Oh, that's Carol O'kelly. Oh, what does the oh, what is that package. And how do you build it from that vision? To walk into the room and make that impact?

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Carol OKelly: One thing I'd say about these master classes is, I'm not one for talking.

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Carol OKelly: I'm 1 for talking and teaching so that you can go off and do it. So they're really hands on. They're really practical. The 1st one. We're doing 5 game, changing tactics to move your personal brand from that vision to the impact. You want to make

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Carol OKelly: 5 to 7 of them, depending.

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Emma O'Brien: Amazing. I'm going to put the link in the show notes. So folks go and sign up, as you will have heard from the podcast today.

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Emma O'Brien: even though Carol said she was not going to share all her secrets. She's shared an awful lot of them here. So I know, I'm very. I'm really, really grateful because I.

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Carol OKelly: My development, because everyone says to me, stop talking. Don't tell them, don't tell them. Keep a little bit of, but I like.

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Emma O'Brien: Yeah, I.

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Carol OKelly: More women understand, the better we all are together. I think.

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Emma O'Brien: Absolutely. And I say, I think you've scratched the surface of it because there's so many sort of puzzle pieces in here. But my takeaways are a I can share that. I've been swimming with humpback whales. I'll take a toy humpback whale drag on into a meeting with me. I think that is a big takeaway of just being yourself and sharing.

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Carol OKelly: Figures.

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Emma O'Brien: You. It's okay.

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Emma O'Brien: As long as it's not anything too weird. I think there's got to be a line somewhere. Maybe don't lead with this weekend I was doing magic mushrooms, probably not the best thing to start with, but.

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Carol OKelly: As long as it's on Brand, and you're delivering value to the audience in front of you.

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Carol OKelly: Say whatever you want.

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Emma O'Brien: And and this piece of having an impact and tailoring that to you that an impact doesn't have to be big and loud and noisy.

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Emma O'Brien: It's how you, devising your own way of making making an impact, even like you've said you've got someone who's a CEO who does it quietly. But it's very, very impactful. So.

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Carol OKelly: If any of your listeners today are

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Carol OKelly: leaders

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Carol OKelly: on your head, be it if you ignore the very quiet person in your team.

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Carol OKelly: because they're very often the deep thinkers you need to facilitate them.

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Carol OKelly: to quietly give their opinion and quietly give their ideas. They're not going to shout over everybody else. But don't write them off.

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Carol OKelly: Yeah.

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Emma O'Brien: Oh, yes, always the quiet ones that

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Carol OKelly: Was it quite.

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Emma O'Brien: Ones we don't think, think everyone could establish. I'm not generally the quiet one in a room.

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Carol OKelly: Say, that's not either of us, am I.

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Emma O'Brien: Either of us know I'm the one cracking jokes in the corner. I'll bring the sarcasm to the party. So this was wonderful. Carol. Thank you. Just.

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Carol OKelly: Thank you for having me. It was wonderful.

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Emma O'Brien: So welcome, just finally share where people can connect with you. I'm going to put the masterclass link in the show notes. Where's the best people at this paper. Where is the best place for people to connect with you online?

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Carol OKelly: So I'm always on Linkedin, so it's linkedin.com forward. Slash IN forward, slash Carol O'kelly! No apostrophes all one word.

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Carol OKelly: and then on Instagram. I'm Carol O'kelly. Personal branding no apostrophes, all one word.

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Emma O'Brien: Magic. I'll pop both of those in the show notes. I'll pop your website in there as well, and then folks can go and connect with you. Carol. Thanks again for being here.

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Carol OKelly: Me feel free. I will answer everything online, everything, anything you want. Just ask away.

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Emma O'Brien: Okay, there we go. There's an open invitation that you might wish you hadn't made.

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Carol OKelly: Come!

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Emma O'Brien: Thanks, thanks for a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful chat. It was fabulous having you with me today.

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Carol OKelly: Thank you for the invitation. Emma.

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Emma O'Brien: Thank you for being with us today, folks. I will see you in the next episode, bye, for now.